John Legend is looking back on his friendship — and fallout — with embattled rapper Kanye West.

In an interview with The Times published Saturday, May 10, Legend said that West was a different person when the pair met in the early 2000s.

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“Back then Kanye was very passionate, very gifted, and he had big dreams not only for himself but also for all the people around him,” he explained.“He had so much optimism, so much creativity. It does feel sad, sometimes shocking, to see where he is now.”

Legend was friends with West during the release of his landmark album College Dropout. “Kanye blew up after producing Jay-Z’s album The Blueprint in 2001,” he said. “Then he experienced a buzz as a solo artist and the whole time I was travelling with him, doing shows with him, getting exposure not only as his singer and keyboard player but also as an artist myself. I had been turned down by labels everywhere.”

The attention on West rubbed off on Legend in a good way. “Then The College Dropout sold 400,000 copies in its first week, everyone wanted to know what was happening in our camp, and all those people who turned me down suddenly decided that my music sounded a lot better than it did the first time round,” Legend added.

The “All of Me” singer pointed to a major loss in West’s life as a turning point for his former friend. When asked why West is so different now, Legend answered, “I don’t think we’re qualified to psychoanalyze him, but after his mother passed in 2007 there was definitely a difference. His descent started then and seems to have accelerated recently.”

West has made headlines in recent years for antisemitic comments and behavior and for his ongoing custody saga with ex-wife Kim Kardashian. On April 30, the rapper went on a rant in a livestream where he spoke about not being able to see the pair’s four children, North, 11, Saint, 9, Chicago, 7, and Psalm, 5.

“[DJ] Akademiks put that battery in my back, bro. ‘Cause I was in the airport by myself … I’mma go get these kids, man!” the rapper said, according to a video from Hollywood Unlocked. “I’mma go get these kids, bro. I’m talking to the lawyers — it gets to the point where I don’t lose my f***ing mind where I got to get used to not seeing my kids.”

“I DONT WANT TO JUST ‘SEE’ MY KIDS. I NEED TO RAISE THEM. I NEED TO HAVE SAY SO OF WEAR [sic] THEY GO TO SCHOOL AND WHO THEIR FRIENDS ARE AND WHOS [sic] HOUSES THEY SLEEP OVER WEATHER [sic] MY DAUGHTERS WEAR LIPSTICK AND PERFUME,” he wrote in a since-deleted post from March. “ALL THESE RIGHTS HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM ME BY THE KARDASHIAN MOB HULU AND DISNEY AND THE BIGGER AGENDA TO USE THE SELECTIVELY BRED BLACK CHILDREN TO BE PLATFORMS TO INFLUENCE BLACK PEOPLE.”